The Cosmosis/Laughing Buddha Interview
Interviewed by Mark_H, 3/97

 In addition to the interview with Cosmosis/Laughing Buddha [below],
there are others in the History seciton.

 Who are you? and where are you located?
We're Bill and Jez and we are located in North London where our recording studio "The Vibrazone" is.

History of the partnership/group, how did you start?
Bill - we were introduced by a mutual friend who I was doing progressive house dance music with........
Jez - and I was doing lots of parties and acid with (laugh).
Bill - John, the mutual friend, saw that the music that I was doing on my own (not progressive house) was the same as Jez was doing on his own so he introduced us. We then said right lets do a track together then and see if we enjoyed working together. Which we obviously did.
Jez - I didn't at that time really have access to a lot of to studio equipment even though I had done a few courses on sound engineering, equipment access was a little problem. It was expensive to hire out studio time a day at a time and then come back two weeks later when the creativity maybe had gone. Bill at that time had a little studio so that was good to work together for continuity reasons and we enjoyed the initial experiences.

Was making music something you were doing professionally at the time Jez?
Jez - No just fun.

What musical training have you had if any? Jez I suspect you have a little classical yes?
Jez - oh a lot! I have had plenty of classical training..... yunno always playing some instrument or other when I was a little boy like the violin, piano, cello and lots of classical theory.

Playing to an audience?
Jez - Yes at school I was always in school orchestra's. I played at the Albert Hall in a youth orchestra and won a music scholarship to a private school called Marlborough and there on to loads of musical activities i.e. chamber orchestra's, chamber groups, solo recitals, community orchestra's, chamber music courses and that sort of thing ... they made sure that there was lots of that type of music activity available. I eventually got through to the final auditions for the Menuin School of Music and the National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain.......
Bill - but you blew them out.....

Why did you blow them out?
Jez - Basically I was always into that kinda thing because I never really had to try too hard and it came pretty naturally, I got away with a minimum amount of practice but there was never a real passion for it ... my parents are such prominent national musicians it was like becoming a competition and I always saw playing the cello as my fathers thing and didn't want to follow in his footsteps. Yunno I just felt like doing something a bit different ... something a little more nowish (laughing) rather than something coming from 4 or 500 years ago!

Bill, what about your musical background?
Bill - (Thinking) err self taught professional musician playing for 10 years and before that, semi professional for 4 years playing guitar.

Playing what type of music?
Bill - Basically it degenerated into anything anybody that would pay me to play. I got to know every modern style BUT what I really enjoyed playing was blues as a guitarist and funky soul. I toured internationally with an acid jazz band and I was in lots of bands that I would like to forget about as well (chuckle).

With the music you make now what sort of effect do you hope to have?
Bill - God that's a big question! sort of like where do I begin........

Do you want people to think "well that's a catchy tune"? (smile)
Jez - ohh no way that doesn't even touch the surface of it .... I mean basically what we're looking at with this form of music is the tip of the iceberg ... it's suddenly like we are looking at the doorway of an expanse of unexplored territory and the possibility is as mind blowing as the possibility of life on other planets (much laughing). The implications are just huge.
Bill - by hitting those frequencies that resonate with someone's being in such a pleasurable way and having a mastery of that we could try to create a 'cinema' that resonates and vibrates with the listener such that a mass of pictures and shapes are created to produce a cinematic landscape of moving, multidimensional splendour i.e. a hallucinographic art gallery. Phantasmagorical! (much mirth).

So how far do you think this music can evolve?
Jez - It can evolve as far as peoples imaginations can open .... I mean as far as people are allowed to allow their imaginations can roam. It's not like this music is one track it's just roaming the wilderness of possibility.

The psychedelic trance scene is truly global, healthy and expanding. There will be an increasing amount of publicity and interest and paradoxically some may think that this as a problem. Do you see this as a problem?
Bill - In a way I'm glad that the huge spotlight that was on the genre recently has shifted away from it because it will allow it to develop naturally rather than being hyped and it will allow the people that are interested in it will develop their skill and artistry without too much commercial pressure. Too much attention/money too soon can kill something off.
Jez - (puffing on a Himalayan cigarette) What was the question again? (laugh) Well I mean yeah .... at the end of the day I'm not convinced it's an experience for everyone ...it's maybe only an experience for those who are ready for it. It's pretty full on and some find it pretty hard to deal with.
Bill - I've got no problem with more people being involved as long as their point of entry is from the direct experience of an event rather than some crap they read about.
Jez - It's not pop music ... you cannot sell it in the same way that you sell commercial records i.e. a commercial product with a catchy tune and you forget about it until the next week when you find something else.
Bill - It's serious music for serious music listeners.

What do you consider are your best releases? Do you have any favourites that you think are particularly effective?
Jez - thinking ....... yes there is Gift of the Gods, Key to the Innerverse errr I always find that a really difficult question to answer.
Bill - I like Gift, Key, Karma, Alien Disco. Were kind of used to listening to these so much it's hard to be objective. People seem to really like Canabannoid and Danse Ta Figure.

Do you consider re-mixes of good tunes viable and why?
Bill - what other peoples tunes? the truth is if the fees big enough.... no no no... (laugh) the trouble is that it takes up our time when we could be making our own tunes and we are very pushed for time at present.
Jez - If ever we have more time and the opportunity arrives to remix someone else's tune that we respect we would consider it. In the past we have done remixes but we had more time then and was not gigging so much. We have a lot more options open to us now and are busy with our own projects.

What are your future plans as artists? Where do you want to go as artists and where do you want to go as people?
Bill - Immediate plans are to complete an album for TIP records as Laughing Buddha and beyond that we have the germ of an idea for a conceptual album. Also we want to get ourselves into a position whereby we have all the kit we need in a good studio.
Jez - I find it again hard to answer this question as there are often unexpected twists and it kind of pays to see how the land lies when you get there. Fate plays a part. But we do have an overall plan to have pre-production studio at each of our homes together with a fuck off studio. The music plan is kind of an organic thing though, not suited to rigid plans.

Tell me about record distribution... is it a problem?
Bill - It's definitely a problem for those that want to buy the records and cannot get them and that's a shame and frustrating. It's a lot better than it used to be ....a lot of the tunes are getting out there on vinyl but there's room for big improvement.
Jez - DJ's are now saying that they can play sets from vinyl without too much if any reliance on dats. The market does not seem to be growing really strongly and a lot of that is probably down to distribution.
Bill - My feeling is that there is a big demand out there but it's not being satisfied at present. We have discovered this from all sources but the edges are spreading out albeit slowly.

Who are your major influences i.e. which DJ's (if any) artists, record labels?
Jez - Shiva's a good influence (smiling) and her magic masonic marbles.
Bill - Albert Hoffman is quite and influence too. Earlier influences for me for the psychedelic sound were Jimi Hendrix bigtime, Steve Hillage and Gong, a certain amount of The Grateful Dead, Frank Zappa can (could) get very out there, Pink Floyd definitely in terms of the psychedelic rock thing and of course Hawkwind. I was also very influenced by much of the space rock bands playing at Stonehenge and other festivals in the early eighties.
Jez - Pink Floyd ... I grew up on a non stop diet of it for years. Not so much the space rock thing but I liked the Doors. But basically these days it's all psychedelic trance. There are some guys these days who are doing some unbelievable stuff.... like what Koxbox and Total Eclipse are delivering.
Bill - and of course Simon Posford which goes without saying kinda thing.

Any DJ influences?
Bill - No (laughing) about DJ's being an influence ....essentially they just play the stuff BUT I'm grateful for the fact that they do for when I went to my first party Mark Allen was on the decks and it blew my mind.
Jez - A lot is up to the DJ's who can put you through a journey through all different moods and yunno in terms of an overall evening that's more of the DJ's job. But as far as musical influences no.

What advice do you give to new artists wishing to break out and release?
Bill - get yourself to a couple of really good underground parties and drink some free lemonade!. Do your own thing and don't follow other people.
Jez - Be as experimental as possible and get yourself as far away from any sort of formula as possible. Don't copy everyone or anyone else.

The music is not played on the radio to any great extent, please comment?
Bill - About time we had a trance radio station. We did a live radio interview in Athens who have a trance radio station which plays psychedelic trance 50% of the time. London should have something similar maybe.
Jez - however it would sound better on a turbo sound system (laughing). It doesn't make any difference to the parties .... they are as still as good as ever. In a way no radio playing does keep the tunes more special.

The tiresome slagging of the psychedelic trance sound spouting from the music press is for all to see. Comments please?
Jez - They are all deaf!
Bill - It's very radical music and it's gone right over a lot of peoples heads and probably will continue to go over a lot of peoples heads because it is not for everybody. I read a review by someone the other day about this sort of music whereby the reviewer said "even his fridge sounds good on acid" my reply to this is well you go and listen to your fridge, I know what I'll be listening to.

What is it about a track that makes you think "yes that's a monster" is that some thing you can put into words?
Jez - Not in earth language!
Bill - I know what it is EXACTLY and precisely what does it for me when I hear a good track , it hits me straight away except I have absolutely no idea how to communicate what it is.
Jez - Yes and there is all sort of things that can do it in all sorts of different ways. At the heart of every religion there is the spirit or the divine experience undoubtedly the same experience it's just that the experience has been interpreted or described in different ways and the experience that you may have with this music yunno is essentially the same experience and people may describe it in different ways. It's different interpretations. The experience is the source of it and that is the parallel. It's the way the frequency storms are growing.
Bill - Mmmnn it's something to do with the frequencies.

Is there a massive difference between good and bad psy trance and is it something a relative beginner could spot?
Bill - There is a massive difference between a good and bad track but you have to be familiar enough with the music to start to recognise it.

Expand a little on what the music does to you personally when listening to a good track?
Jez - I think it's when I forget I exist I know I am listening to a good track..
Bill - I second that (laughing).

With Cosmosis, what identity, if any, are you trying to create as opposed to Laughing Buddha?
Jez - There is definitely a difference between the two projects but we don't want to dwell on the identity as such as that may stifle a little creativity so we don't try to create too much of an ID however, compared to Laughing Buddha the stuff tends to be a little more melodic maybe even more accessible but still very psychedelic.
Bill - I am not so sure we consider the Cosmosis stuff accessible, its a different angle, lighter, less dark and trippy, more uplifting but still chunky. It can still get dark sometimes.

More Driving?
Jez - (thinking) more like windsurfing or skiing (laughing).
Bill - I would like to add that identities are something we don't particularly wish to deal with .... yunno nationalism or the whole thing of people identifying with any particular thing as it's a bit of a dodgey issue we don't want to have a thing which say's this is us and you should identify with that ..... we are not in the least bit interested in that kinda thing. It's about the opposite of identity really .... more ego loss!

But what do you want people to think when they think of Cosmosis or Laughing Buddha ...is it just "oh they make good music"?
Bill - I think they can think what they like... we leave it up to them. (smiling)

Comment please on the Eastern links so readily attached to the sound by commentators. Is it just hype or what?
Jez - Considering the origin of a lot of the parties I think it is inevitable. I think it's evolved FAR beyond that now. That reminds me of more how the music used to be more than how it is now.
Bill - It was never made in India but the party origins with the eastern mentality shines through a little. The eastern influence helped shift the musical frames of reference away a little from the western influences so prevalent. There's so much more than that original eastern influence though, it's been a little hyped.

Do you think the spiritual/metaphysical aspect of the scene is valuable or just new age bollox?
Jez - It's up to individual people to decide for themselves, I mean, some may want to read more spiritual interpretation into it than others.
Bill - It's definitely valuable, it addresses a fundamental need in people that they don't get from participation of any other activities in the western world.
Jez - Yes it's an incredible release, a purifying experience.

How do you start to go about making a track? do you work to a formula or is it spontaneous?
Bill - Yes it's a formula, we've got this same sequence program that we use every time whereby we just use different presets (huge laughing).....
Jez - We sort of start of where we finished off learning from the last track, it's like there's certain things that you carry over with you but each times a fresh adventure and we don't know what each track is gonna sound like until it's finished.
Bill - Agree, we start at the beginning and see where we end up.

Do you start with a drum or wacky synth line or whatever?
Jez - We get a loop going full of ideas at the start.
Bill - It's always good to start with a groove, equally we could start with a bit of experimentation with delayed synth but it's a good idea to sort the groove out at the start.

What exactly is the groove?
Jez - It's combination of kickdrum, bass, closed hats, loops etc. but with that general driving rhythm with the base. If you haven't got a good groove you haven't got a track. It's the foundation. At the end of the day it's dance music and that has to be there to move the dancefloor.

How long does it take you to complete a track?
Jez - About 3 weeks but it depends and that's pretty much full time. It can be done in two weeks.
Bill - Once we have got on the case it's best not to stop. We have often tried to make tracks and taken breaks in the middle and come back with a totally different perspective and it doesn't flow. It's an organic process.

What essential basic equipment (hardware/software) do you use?
Bill - Cubase running on a PC, Kurtzweil K2000 and various toys. We have never used a 303 on any of our music. A guy in Greece after a gig told me we did even after I told him we have never used one!

What is your opinion on mixing? Should CD's/albums be mixed.
Bill - I like mixed albums at home, only CD's should be mixed though to enable DJ's to weave their magic.

How much influence do your record labels have over you? do they leave you alone to produce? do they guide you the artists in any direction?
Bill - No influence whatsoever, absolutely none.
Jez - If we wanted guidance we would have no problem asking. However we are not in the position where labels tell us what to do.

That's interesting
Bill - That's EXACTLY how it should be and that's the way the record industry wasn't for a long while as I knew it. As soon a people got a monetary stake in it they started telling artists what to do and that's where it starts to go all wrong. If you are an artist creation is an organic thing and having someone poking their nose in it just doesn't work. I am so glad that whole thing seems to be a thing of the past. The psychedelic scene as far as the labels are concerned is a really friendly open co-operative scene. It's exemplary.

Are the tracks made by you written, produced and mastered totally by yourselves or do you import help?
Jez - No help whatsoever. Tracks are all ours everything is written, produced and mastered etc. by us. The track is only cut and marketed by the labels.
Bill - There are other acts whose music we really respect who we would like to work with in the future but at the present time we are very very busy with our own stuff.
Jez - We had to turn down an offer to spend a week collaborating with Transwave in Paris but we are too busy and I was really disappointed because it was a really nice idea, they are really nice guys and we like their music.

Are lysergics necessary to be able to create/fully enjoy the sound?
Jez - I am not sure that's the best way to put it as I am sure that there are people about who can tune in and make the sound without. However there is no doubt that psychedelics are always damned good for a piece of inspiration (laughing).
Bill - A large part of the whole trance dance experience is the actual dancing and if you don't dance you don't get it. I can use dance to get right right out there. Also I can use lysergics and do the same ... both experiences are altered states of consciousness for me. They help to compose the music no question about it. The music is designed to put you in that state of mind or if you are already in that state of mind it is very appealing.

What is the future of the outdoor or impromptu party?
Jez - There will always be underground parties in one form or another and there always was. They cannot be stopped altogether.
Bill - There seems to be a lot of censorship in Europe I mean we had the plug pulled on us out in Greece and France and of course over here we have the CJA. The whole thing is just a reaction to our large opposing force I see it that we are the yin and they are the yan or whatever. But it is unstoppable and the spirit is also unstoppable.

What does the scene mean to you the individuals?
Jez - Its LIFE. Its the context within which we do everything.
Bill - It's who I am. It's an upsurge and an outrage (laughing) I have had some the best moments of my life on the dancefloor.

How is this reflected in your releases?
Bill - That feeling and vibration is what I draw my inspiration from and I try to paint a picture of that.
Jez - Agreed ... making the music for me is like giving back something to the scene giving back energy to keep the thing going.

Have you encountered any strange or unusual attitudes towards this type of music?
Bill - Yeah, we've come across the "it's the devils' music" type of mentality a few times, more so in mainland Europe catholic countries where the good/evil polarity is more so deeply rooted. It seems that if it hasn't got a cross shaped seal of approval then it is obviously the work of the devil which is sadly naive. However, that's cool because it shows that we're working in the domain of the unknown which has always been where the action's at.
Jez - That's fine because the devils' got all the best tunes (roar of laughter).

Big labels (with no real interest) cashing in on the scene and the sound. Comments please.
Jez - The thing is that labels approach it like that are always going to be about 5 years behind. i.e. following in the vapour trail of the spearhead.
Bill - There's a lot of acts who are mastering their manipulation of the sound and frequencies and we are starting to hear some seriously good sounds coming out in this genre at the moment. It's the labels who have got their colours nailed to the mast who know what is good and what's not that have all the top tunes on their labels and they are the ones who are really going to fly.
Jez - There is I suppose nothing wrong with labels picking up the titbits left over and giving the artists money for their tracks for compilations so long a people realise that that's not where the parties happening (laughing).

So if a big "fuck off" label asked you to do an album for them would you have a problem with that?
Bill - Well we have talked about it but there would have to be definite circumstances, the first being that they have absolutely no say in the musical content. Under no circumstances would we consider signing anything where anybody had any say in what we did. We would rather put out white labels.

As a very successful live PA act is there anywhere where you would like to play?
Bill - It's nice to play at festivals and we enjoy that i.e. free vibe festival.

You are currently very busy with live Pa's ... is it something you would like to do more?
Jez - Well it's a bit disruptive and time consuming dismantling the studio but playing is enjoyable but as we are currently so busy actually trying to make more music we have no immediate ambitions to tour heavily.
Bill - We are doing a lot of European gigs at present but we need to consider having some major uninterrupted time in the studio. It's got to be said that touring is seriously good fun.

Any other comments?
Bill - (after a lot of thought) There is a lot that we have unlearned as well as learned since we have done this sort of music. It's a different way of looking at things.... rather than dealing with melody and harmony we're dealing with spaces, pictures and shapes and that's quite a fundamental jump when you are composing..

Is there any advice you would like to give to anyone reading this interview?
Jez - No 'cos we are making it up as we go along! (huge laughing).

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